I know some on here have criticized – perhaps rightly so – Christians for their blind support of the Republican Party. But what about the other party? Where is the outrage over Democrats supporting a candidate whose pastor spouts racist propaganda, such as this gem, from the pulpit?:
The irony of it is that Obama is just as white as he is black.
64 comments:
He attends this church for 20 years, considers the pastor a spiritual adviser, pays tithes and charitable contributions, AND CONTINUES TO CONSIDER IT HIS CHURCH. Now, a politically expedient denouncement of such dangerous rhetoric makes everything OK?
Know this, if Obama were anything other than what he is, a minority candidate for the Democratic party, his political career would be over.
I am so happy for this man that he has never been reduced to the level of bigotry that we all are at. What an uplifting message!
What exactly is racist about what he said?
That rich white people control this country? Is that racist? Do rich white people control this country? Go take a look at the Senate and then tell me what you think. Maybe poor Black people control it and they are using rich white people as their puppets. That must be it...
Or perhaps that Jesus was Black? Is that racist? That is an opinion but is it racist?
What exactly qualifies this as racist progaganda?
First off Obama has never said that this man is infallible or that he agrees with everything he says.
A number of prominant White Republican preachers have said that 911 was God's damnation and blamed it on homosexuals, etc.
Would anyone take all the White people / politicians associated with those preachers to task for going to those churches?
What about all the people who still go to Jimmy Swaggert's church, do they condone prostition?
There are websites which quote brother Branham (out of context of course) saying things like some woman "ain't worth a good clean bullet to shoot her with," and claiming that Brother Branham hated women. Does that mean that everyone who has gone to a Message church advocates shooting women?
If he wasn't black and his name wasn't Obama we wouldn't be holding him accountable for every word that comes out of another Black man's mouth.
Do you think it is fair to hold you accountable for every word that comes out of your preacher's mouth and every deed he commits? Of course not. But that is what you guys are doing to Obama. Would you be doing that if he had renounced the words of the preacher and he wasn't Black? I doubt it.
The truth is White people are just looking for an excuse to lynch the uppity Black man and they think they just found it. Not for anything he has said or done but for something someone else said.
Making him pay for the sins of another seems fair doesn't it?
While we're at it, why doesn't someone investigate him for the Simpson murders while we're at it? Can he prove he didn't kill Nicole Brown Simpson? Because he sure looks guilty to me...
And yes I am back...
I wasn't gonna say anything but I can't just sit by and let John be the purveyor of simple-minded tripe while all those assembled knowing nod their heads in unison.
Another thing:
I'd never really thought about it, but is Jesus Black?
Lessee, lemme put the ol' noggin to work...
Adherents to the Jesus is Black opinion rely on passages that claim that Jesus had a dark complexion and hair like wool. Plus he was hated and crucified for crimes he didn't commit.
Hmmm... Sounds pretty Black to me, but I'd say that is far from definitive.
What does science have to say about this subject? Well genetic mapping has proven that humans originated from a common African ancestor. I guess that means that Adam and Eve were African. So maybe Adam and Eve were Black?
The Bible says that God created Man in his own image so if Adam and Eve were Black then maybe God is Black too...
So since Jesus was the son of God, that makes Jesus at least half Black.
So maybe Jesus was not Black, maybe he was just half Black like Obama.
I bet that caused White people to get confused and crucify him and declare him guilty of being all kind of things like Black, racist and probably Un-American, errr... Un Roman by association."
So maybe Jesus was the Black biracial baby of a mother who wasn't legally wed to his father.
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Awww!! Who am I kidding? Forgive my sacrilege. Of Course Jesus was White! To suggest otherwise would be racist. Right, John?
And of course God is white too, otherwise why would all the angels have blonde hair and blue eyes like the folks in the Aryan Supremacy posters?
We've all seen the movies with God in them, right? They prove that God is most definitely a White English-Speaking Male. And we all know he is most definitely Republican and almost all of them are White. Why he's probably even German...
And Adam and Eve's last name was probably Holsapple or something very close to it.
You know why?
Because they ate the Whole Apple!!
Ba dump dump!!!
Adam Holsapple...
I gotta admit, it has a great ring to it.
So what is your defense for Obama's statement that his white grandmother was "a typical white person" because of her fears of black men?
Holy cow! Don Imus was crucified for less incendiary comments than that! Can you imagine if he had called the Rutgers women's team "typical black people?" He would have been executed in the public square.
But because Obama is black and a "victim" of racism he can get away with it? Puhleeze. That's like saying a rape victim has lisence to go out and rape anyone she wants because she's a victim. Or that a mugging victim can mug anyone he wants because he's a victim.
Barack Obama is a racist and to turn and say, "Oh yeah, well you started it," is duplicitous at best.
Hully I listened to this excerpt twice and I still don't see how it qualifies as "racist propaganda."
Are his claims that Jesus was poor and black, somehow inherently offensive to white people?
And why is that? Why are White people threatened by the thought of a Black Jesus?
Are they afraid they would love him less?
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Was Jesus Black? Is God Black? I have no idea and I don't really care.
If a Black person chooses to believe he was Black, I have no problem with it.
If a Mexican chooses to believe he is Mexican (only Mexicans name their kids Jesus, right?) I have no problem with it.
If I white person chooses to believe Jesus was White Blonde and Blue eyed, I have no problem with it.
But apparently some people do...
John:
So what you are saying here by calling Obama racist is that Obama is racist against his mother (The person who raised him on her own) and his grandmother right?
He is also racist against half of his genetic code right?
Sounds pretty stupid to me.
Sounds like some White people are looking for an excuse to sanctimoniously and self-righteously vote against Obama because Obama is so racist.
How "typical"... ;)
John,
This is just another example of White Republicans from Lima, just not "getting it" when it comes to race.
Obama is biracial. He is white and black. Arguably since he was raised by his white mom, he is culturally far more white than black.
Let's take me for example. I am part white (red heads and blondes abound on my mom's side of the family) part native American - Mestizo Mexican, and part Black (1/8th which historically qualifies me as an octoroon under the "one drop" rule)
The people I love the most in the whole world is asian (my wife) and half asian (my kids.)
My best friend is Black.
I have learn to hate the racism and love the racist.
I love my mother-in-law, even though she is a racist. I understand where she is coming from and I would never completely denounce her as an evil person. She is a wonderful person who happens to be infected by racism, but it doesn't define her, it's just a sickness she carries.
Regarding White people, you guys probably think I'm anti-white because I'm so anti-racism. I'm not anti-white at all.
I have plenty of White relatives in Mexico and I love them even though some of them are racist.
I also love you and care about you (and you're pretty darn white) I love and care about Sharla (don't get no whiter) and I love plenty of other white people. Now I'm not saying you guys are racist, (I don't think you are) but I think some of the incorrect assumptions you make about race are probably colored by the fact that you are white.
Obama can love his pastor and disagree with his opinions about race, 911 or whatever. Is the pastor racist? I have no idea what is in his heart, but you can't say Obama is racist because Obama loves and cares for him anymore than you can declare me racist because I love and care for my mother-in-law.
Bad analogies are like burnt oven mittens.
*sits back, munches on some popcorn*
You mean like comparing Obama to a rape victim who is raping people?
Notice, I didn't say I loved you PMB. The jury is still out on you, bro...
Or a mugger? Or a mugging rapist?
I still want John to explain exactly what is so "racist" about that excerpt he published.
Also why he thinks Obama is a racist and whether it feels good (as a white man) to unfairly call a black man racist with no proof.
I'm sure white men are the victims of that all the time (being called racist with no proof) so I don't see why he would do that to someone else.
That would be like a rapist mugging other rapist muggers, wouldn't it?
;)
Why the "Rev." Wright is racist (IMHO):
He is racist because he uses his propaganda to divide. Why does it matter if Jesus was white or black, or red or brown or yellow for that matter? I thought it was the content of a man's character that truly mattered, not the color of his skin. Why bring it up?
Simple, to give black people a victim complex, aka a crucifixion complex. "It's not your fault you're downtrodden. It's the white man's fault."
Also, when in doubt, check the motive. Wright isn't saying what he's saying out of love, but out of hate.
Why Obama is racist:
He is racist not because he thinks his grandmother is afraid of black men, but because he says the "typical white person" is afraid of black men. (Heck, according to studies that have been done, the "typical black person" is afraid of black men.) The Jesse Jacksons of the world get their knickers in a twist whenever anyone says, "you people" or talks about the "typical black person."
Let's face it, if John McCain's pastor was saying the things about blacks that Wright is saying, or if McCain were to say that any black individual was a "typical black person," his campaign would be over tomorrow. But Obama gets a free pass.
Typical.
Must....continue....munching....popcorn. GAHHHH!!
*grin*
John I am sorry that you feel the need to portray yourself as another white victim of black racism.
It's pathetic really.
Unlike you, Black people don't need to portray themselves as victims of racism, because they face it every day.
I didn't see anything particularly divisive about the excerpt and I think the reason he brought it up was:
1) to make a point about what has Obama had to go through (being falsely accused) by the white establishment, just as Jesus was falsely accused by the Romans
2) Probably to instill a sense of pride in people that have been systematically been made to feel less than by folks who insist that everything that is white is good (Jesus, God, George Bush) and everything that is Black is bad (Obama, Willie Horton, muggers and rapists.)
At the end of his speech that preacher guy talks about loving people who hate you. How is that divisive? Did you miss that part?
No, probably because you were so offended by the idea of Jesus being black that you couldn't see straight.
For a long time Mormons depicted Abel as White and Cain as black and said that Black people were the sons of Cain. Did anybody ask Romney to denounce his father or his grandfather or his great grandfather? Nope.
And don't tell me the typical old white woman isn't scared of black guys. You're either being purposely obtuse to make a point or you are totally clueless when it comes to questions of race. It's probably a little of both.
These are complex issues and calling somebody who is half white a racist because he uses the word "typical" when describing his grandmother is (again) pathetic.
The irony of it all is that electing Obama would probably do more to improve race relations than anything else we could do in this country, but it probably won't happen because people like you are pointing fingers at him and calling him racist.
I hope you can survive Obama's racist onslaught against you and your woefully mistreated and discriminated against, white brethren. How you manage to survive in the face of such horrible discrimination is an inspiration to us all.
Keep decrying black racists my brother and one day you too will overcome the horrible stigma and disadvantages that come with being white.
John I hope this makes you feel better...
Here's another one of your white brothers who has been horribly mistreated by the nonwhite.
He wrote a song to commemorate his plight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xEzGIuY7kw
One for the road...
About getting a free ride and double standards.
The Pope was used to be a Nazi Youth when he was kid. (No kidding, you can look it up.)
But he's a white guy, so he gets to be the pope, right? White people have minds of their own and they can overcome evil, misguided influences.
So why wasn't Guiliani taken to task for following a Religion headed by a former Nazi? Cuz he's white?
Scwartzeneggar's father was a Nazi too, but he gets to be Governor of California. Why? Because he is white and he has a mind of his own and can overcome evil influences.
Obama is Black so obviously he cannot possibly think differently than his pastor in any respect. He doesn't have a mind of his own right? He is most definitely a racist and the worst kind of racist, an angry Black one.
Poor white people, forced to live in a world where Blacks get a free ride and constantly trample on White rights.
I weep for you all..
The problem I have is with the victim mentality that is propagated by the black leadership and continues to enslave the African-American community. You are Latino. Yet, in a nation run by rich, white men you have somehow managed to achieve an enviable level of success. Christine, in spite of her Asianness (new word!) has done similarly. I am sure that both of you have experienced some level of racially motivated prejudice in your lives. What is the difference between your stories and the stories of many in the African-American community? Neither one of you sat around feeling like you were owed something because you were a victim.
The problem I have with your characterization of the black community (one I have heard often from my white and asian friends) is that like most broad generalizations, it isn't accurate.
My best friend is a 30 year old Black male, he is also a self-made multi-millionaire who owns a brand new Rolls, a Ferrari, a Lamborghini, 24 houses and so many cars he can hardly keep track.
He regularly gets stopped for driving while black because Cops can't resist stopping a young Black man in a fancy car. Other than the few cases when he files a formal complaint because the stoppages are so blatant (he doesn't get a ticket they just make him wait on teh side of the road for 45 minutes for no good reason) he never complains about discrimination or feels sorry for himself. He loves being black.
Most Black people know that America is a great country and they don't just sit around feeling sorry for themselves because some pastor told them to. They aren't some huge, stupid monolithic block. They don't all think and believe the same things.
In fact I have heard more of this victim mentality from white males than anyone else. "Blacks get a free ride. It is better to be Black than white in this country, because blacks get all the breaks."
Even Hilary was singing that song recently.
I often hear whites complain about how Blacks are racist and angry and they hate white people, etc., etc.
That's why i'm so sick and tired of that song. Seeing you complaining about Obama being racist is just more of the same. (You don't even know him and you are convicting him on some pretty shaky evidence by the way.)
This is a common tale of woe that I have heard quite often from conservatives, whites and asians.
They truly believe that they are the "victims' and they are the ones with the "victim mentality."
I think it's all a bunch of Hogwash. Every study of racist practices, gerrymandering, red-lining, economic discrimination etc. shows that poor Blacks are constantly getting the short end of the stick when it comes to education, health care, etc.
Yet white people are the victims?
Puh-leeze!! As my dad used to say, "tell it to the Marines."
Wow, I think I nearly yawned myself to death.
All of Israel's thinking inside the box is positively stifling.
Hey at least I'm thinking...
And yeah, when you can't come up with a decent counter argument, claim to be bored.
Here I am hanging out in this blog to see how conservative middle americans think and it turns out they don't think, at least not very clearly or very deeply.
My worst fears are confirmed daily, and it's easy to see why the country is in the sad shape that it's in, with a "C" student at the helm supported and enabled by a bunch of other "C" students.
We get the government we deserve I suppose. Good luck competing with the Chinese in the next century Y'all, cuz their "C" students are digging ditches not running the country...
Another paragon of Journalistic integrity and objectivity, The National Inquirer, also has some interesting reading about Obama.
He's friends with Terrorists, etc. and may be an Iranian agent.
My racist mother-in-law cut it out to prove that Obama is a racist.
You guys would like it...
Is that "interesting read" an editorial?
Or is it an article with numerous unnamed sources that merely seeks to make an unsubstantiated political point?
Or is it a hatchet job on Obama seeking to pin all the ills of all the Black people on his shoulders?
Whatever it is, I bet you it's just one conservative white guys opinion about people he doesn't understand and probably doesn't even like.
Or he could probably be making stuff up just to fill space, because he doesn't name a single source.
I have to agree with Israel on at least one thing...
This blog is a lot less boring when he is on it;)
Well, I'll just step out of the way and let him take it over, since I'm so boring and all. Sorry to waste everyone's time.
Noooooo, my foil!!
Who else am i supposed to be mean to?
You can't go out like that John, that would be like a 6-foot-8 guy getting his ribs broken by some elementary school kids in a pick up basketball game...
Noooooo!!
I won't be mean any more.
McCAIN is reall cool!!
^^^ that's funny raght thar.... seriously.
Oh, something else funny (quote from several posts back)
Israel: "He regularly gets stopped for driving while black..."
Two questions: does California have laws against driving while black and can your friend change his color at will? If so, the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia is more backwards than I thought. Very interesting.
Israel, I wasn't saying I would step aside because you were mean. I was saying I would step aside so Sharla could continue to gush all over you without having to suffer through the boredom that my normal musings have foisted upon her. As far as elementary kids... well, you obviously haven't seen Ben K. in a few years, if ever.
Was I gushing?
oh brother.
John, the thing is I agree with you on everything you say. You say it with more wit and eloquence than I ever could, so I am often amused and impressed with your comments. None of us reading this EVER agree with anything poor ol' Israel has to say but it does make the conversation more interesting to hear a different point of veiw, no matter how misguided it may be.
Also I find Israel hilariously funny.
PMB also cracks me up, but when it's just the two of you who agree completely on everything, the read is not quite so entertaining.
Since no one on here ever thinks Israel is right about hardly anything, it makes us look like we would never concede a point. I found one to concede so I did! ;) (I love you all)
Israel,
I just went to your youtube site and watched "white and nerdy". I still have tears on my cheeks. That was funny! The one problem I see is you seem to fit the profile even more than we do, what with your comic books and action figure collections along with your grades and degrees. me thinks you might protest too much.
A little double standard.
Here are two white Republican preachers saying that 911 was God's will and our country deserved it and it was our government's fault. (basically echoing the Terrorists party line.)
Of course they are white so their comments aren't hateful and they love america. If a black preacher says the same thing, he is an unamerican terrorist.
SO WHY hasn't White America Denounced the 700 Club and these terrorist sympathizers?
Hmmmmm...
JERRY FALWELL: And I agree totally with you that the Lord has protected us so wonderfully these 225 years. And since 1812, this is the first time that we've been attacked on our soil and by far the worst results. And I fear, as Donald Rumsfeld, the Secretary of Defense, said yesterday, that this is only the beginning. And with biological warfare available to these monsters -- the Husseins, the Bin Ladens, the Arafats -- what we saw on Tuesday, as terrible as it is, could be miniscule if, in fact -- if, in fact -- God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.
PAT ROBERTSON: Jerry, that's my feeling. I think we've just seen the antechamber to terror. We haven't even begun to see what they can do to the major population.
JERRY FALWELL: The ACLU's got to take a lot of blame for this.
PAT ROBERTSON: Well yes.
JERRY FALWELL: And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."
PAT ROBERTSON: Well, I totally concur, and the problem is we have adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government. And so we're responsible as a free society for what the top people do. And, the top people, of course, is the court system..
And you're right, Sharla, I totally identify with the white and nerdy guy and that's why I thought the song was so funny....
"Driving While Black, abbreviated as DWB, is a popular culture phrase that refers to the criminalization of black drivers. An alternate phrase, Driving While Brown, is more expansive, referring to the supposed crime of being a non-white driver."
My friend has been followed by Cops for miles and miles and then pulled over for no reason and made to sit on the side of the road for 45 minutes while cops yucked it up in their squad car behind him. No ticket was issued.
I have had cops drive up behind me in San Antonio (I had borrowed my friends 72 cadillac) and taunt me over the bullhorn, calling me every name in the book for absolutely no reason as I drove back after doing the midnight shift as a newspaper reporter. I expect they wanted me to react so that they could pull me over and beat me up for the fun of it.
So anyway, here's a news flash for you white people from Ohio, Cops treat Black and Brown people differently than they treat white people (see Rodney King.)
I recall Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell being widely panned in the media for their comments, so I don't see a double standard on that.
However, the differences between their comments and Rev. Wright's should be obvious.
Neither we, the media, nor even Wright's skin color make his comments racial. He made it one by blaming America's ills on a particular race of people. Whether or not he is right has no bearing on the fact he has gone out of his way to make this a race issue.
Oh, and going out of his way to say "God D America" might also be why some people have a problem with it.
P.S.
Love that "white and nerdy"... some of weird al's stuff is just beyond hilarious.
P.P.S
I'm sorry to hear your experience with the police; I'm sure there are bigoted police officers just like there are people with bias in any profession.
Maybe I'm just naive, but I like to believe that the majority of police aren't that way, though. The ones I know personally in Ohio are respectful and professional.
I've been the victim of "Driving while not a policeman" quite a few times.
To recap Israel's points: white policeman blah blah, black guy ferrari yada yada, mexican speeding ticket, white on purple violence, viva la Tino!
So what you are saying PMB is that it is OK for a Preacher to declare that God has damned our country for its sins as long as he doesn't bring up any of it's racial sins...
If you are White, you can talk about homosexuals, you can talk about abortion, you can talk about the evils of separation of church and state, but don't talk about racism or bigotry, especially if you're Black, because that m makes you an angry Black un-American terrorist.
That makes sense...
----------
I don't see any difference between Falwell and Robertson's statements and the Black guy's statements.
They are both taking it upon themselves to announce God's damnation and doing so (very possibly) to stir up hatred against gays, etc. for political reasons.
Sure the Black guy is a little more colorful and entertaining with his language, but his comments are no more abhorrent than Pat Robertson's and Jerry Falwell's. Pat and Jerry are (were) political leaders and not just preachers. They are (were) far more dangerous than a single black preacher with some wacky theories.
The difference is you are very quick to condemn Obama and any Black person within earshot of the Black preacher, but where was the widespread Republican condemnation of the White politicians who went on the 700 Club and kissed the rings of Falwell and Robertson after those two basically endorsed the world view of the terrorists? (Think about it, they basically said 9-11 is God's will and America deserved it. That means that according to Jerry and Pat the terrorists successfully carried out the will of Allah. That's what Bin Laden has been saying all along isn't it?)
Well those Politicians who cozy up to Pat and Jerry are white and presumably have a mind of their own I guess, unlike Obama who does not have a mind of his own and believes everything that comes out of that preacher's mouth.
How can you condemn the Black guy and defend the White guys when they are both preaching the same message?
Hmmmm...
Could it beeeee...........
Satan!!!???!!!
(Naw, it's probably just your typical inherent prejudice and fear of Black people.)
-------------
Roger,
Regarding DWB..
Are you telling me you've been stopped and harassed by cops for being White?
This I want to hear...
Well, I just got a phone call from a black lady a few minutes ago and that means I just got hired to decorate a black church. I had the opportunity a couple weeks ago to take a group of 10 or so black people through our church to see my work and I just found out I got the job. They must not have been able to tell how scared I was of them, alot of them hugged me after our tour, they must have somehow missed my knees shaking. I dunno. They've chosen purple as their primary decorating color and I have this weird feeling that after I've decorated their church I'll probably refer to it as the purple church and not the black one. As long as they show me some green, I'll try real hard to be brave!
Well what I said was a joke but since you brought it up...
I have been pulled over 3 times in Arizona without being cited for anything. I was told on all three occasions that because I was out late(ish) and I was coming from the direction of ASU they were pulling me over to see if I was inebriated.
All three times the officers were hispanic, but that's probably luck of the draw.
No, Roger, it isn't luck of the draw. All Hispanics hate you. They are all out to get you.
And we are all afraid of all black people. That is just the way it is.
Re: Roger, tipping two (back.)
Maybe you look Irish. Is your car Shamrock green? Did you have potato breath? Are you from Ohio?
Lots of drunks go to school at ASU (they are the number one party school for a reason) and I honestly think the world would be a better place if cops pulled them all over and gave them the Rodney King treatment.
--------
Before you agree to decorate the Black Church maybe you should ask them if they think Jesus or God might be Black or if their Pastor has ever said anything white people might consider controversial. Also ask them if they have ever heard any other Black person say anything about white people, racism or racists.
If they say yes, then don't do it, cuz they are probably racist terrorists.
And according to the prevailing Republican wisdom around here, just the fact that they are a "Black" church makes them suspected racist terrorists don't you think?
Thanks for the laugh (Roger, Sharla, Israel...yes you too you goober), I needed it. Haha.
P.S.
"So what you are saying PMB..."
Well, no, actually, that wasn't what I said....*sigh* Oh well.
I've been pulled over for DFMWBYM (Driving a Ford Mustang While Being a Young Male) before. During the two years when I owned the Mustang, I received more speeding tickets than I have the entire rest of my driving career, which now spans 18 years. (Incidentally, the Mustang was white, for what it's worth.)
My driving habits, however, have not changed at all in that time. I've driven by OHP cars doing 70 in a 55 with no front license plate without even drawing so much as a glance from the officer. That was in a minivan, which I have since deduced are completely invisible to the police.
I don't disagree that it must be tough to be a minority and have to deal with profiling. What I disagree with is the notion that certain groups have a monopoly on victimhood. When I hear people such as Mr. Wright complaining about their lot in life, I want to invite them to spend a week on an Indian reservation and then come talk to me.
There are A LOT of "victims" in this world. And it's wrong in each case. But picking at a scab only slows the healing process.
As Bro. Jeff said a couple weeks ago, "Bitterness is a pill you swallow hoping to kill the other person."
: Jumps on soapbox :
I agree completely about the victim thing. And I think people who are hyper sensitive and take great offense at every little thing (Oooohhhh!!! He said "typical" when describing a white person, I think the world is coming to an end) are the ones with the ultimate "victim complex."
I also think it is important to be aware of different perspectives and opinions, especially in this country (Gee, are Black people still angry about racism??? How is that possible? They must be racist...)
It is also important to be aware of our own prejudices and biases. (Comdemning Black people for having a "victim mentality" while letting others slide.)
It's also important not to jump to ridiculous politically expedient conclusions before thinking things through, as well as being extremely judgmental of people we don't really know. (Obama hates white people because his preacher upsets me and he used the word "typical.")
: Jumps off soapbox :
In other news, Hillary admits she is seldom wrong.
LOL!
And this from the people who rip Bush for sticking to his principles (err... I mean...never admitting a mistake).
FWIW, I didn't "take offense" at the "typical white person" reference. I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy from those who say it's wrong for a white person to say something like that, but not Barack Obama. The double standard is the issue I was addressing.
Maybe you'll believe a guy from Ohio State University:
Unequal Perspectives on Racial Equality
-
From the Washinhton Post
By Shankar Vedantam
Monday, March 24, 2008; Page A03
Imagine that you are waiting in line to be born . . . Presently, you are scheduled to be born white. However, you are offered an alternative arrangement. In exchange for a cash gift, to be deposited in a bank account for you when you are born, you can choose to instead be born black.
Social psychologists Philip Mazzocco and Mahzarin Banaji once asked white volunteers how much money would cover the "costs" of being born black instead of white. The volunteers guessed that about $5,000 ought to cover the lifetime disadvantages of being an average black person rather than an average white person, in the United States. By contrast, when asked how much they wanted to go without television, the volunteers demanded a million dollars.
Mazzocco and Banaji were taken aback: The average black person in America is 447 percent more likely to be imprisoned than the average white person, and 521 percent more likely to be murdered. Blacks earn 60 cents to the dollar compared with whites who have the same education levels and marital status. The black poverty rate is nearly twice the white poverty rate. Blacks tend to die five years earlier than whites; the infant mortality rate among black babies is nearly 1 1/2 times the rate among white babies. And because of long-standing patterns of inheritance, blacks and whites begin life with substantial disparities in family wealth.
"The point we were making is, whatever the cost of being black might be, whites are vastly underestimating it," said Mazzocco, of Ohio State University at Mansfield. "You throw in the 5-to-1 wealth gap . . . if you wanted to put a dollar-and-cents value on the difference, you would come up with a number much larger than $5,000."
The unusual experiment is one of dozens that have found that whites tend to have a relatively rosy impression of what it means to be a black person in America. Whites are more than twice as likely as blacks to believe that the position of African Americans has improved a great deal. Blacks are more than twice as likely as whites to believe that conditions for African Americans are growing worse.
This long-standing war of perceptions created the perfect storm last week after sermons by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright -- former pastor of Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) -- painted a picture of stark inequality at odds with white perceptions.
Mazzocco and Banaji, who teaches at Harvard, found that when volunteers learned about the disparities, they started to demand much larger sums of money.
"Many whites assume blacks are making use of old crimes to gain present-day benefits that are unearned," Mazzocco said. "Underlying this is a misunderstanding and ignorance about black costs and white privilege."
But knowledge about disparities is not the only reason whites and blacks have different perceptions about racial equality. Social psychologist Richard Eibach at Yale University has shown that whites and blacks often employ different yardsticks to measure racial equality. Whites tend to measure progress by comparing the present and the past -- and America has made giant strides since the Jim Crow era. Nonwhites, Eibach found, are likely to evaluate racial equality in comparison with an idealized future. These yardsticks create entirely different perceptions.
When Eibach asked each group to use the other's yardstick -- whites to focus on the future and nonwhites to think about the past -- the differences disappeared. Now, everyone agreed the country had come a long way -- and had a long way to go.
In a speech last week, Obama similarly argued that his former pastor had failed to acknowledge how America had changed for the better. But Wright's critics, Obama added, were also wrong -- because true equality is still remote.
The intriguing question prompted by Eibach's study is why whites and blacks are unconsciously drawn to different yardsticks. Eibach said one reason might be that racial equality means different things to whites and blacks: Whites see it as an ideal, blacks as a necessity. When people evaluate progress toward idealistic or optional goals -- saving for a vacation -- they tend to focus on progress made. But when people think of necessities -- paying the rent -- they focus on how much they are short.
In another set of experiments, social psychologist Amanda Brodish at the University of Michigan's Institute for Social Research showed that prejudice may play a role, too. Whites with high levels of prejudice -- who think blacks are not as smart as whites, who think blacks and whites are inherently unequal, and who reported being uncomfortable with a black roommate -- invariably evaluated racial equality only in comparison with the past.
By contrast, said Brodish's co-author, Patricia Devine of the University of Wisconsin at Madison, low-prejudice whites were equally willing to apply the yardsticks of both past and future.
While comparisons with a dreadful past and an ideal future produce glass-is-half-empty-vs.-half-full perceptions, the choices are not equivalent. Each perception is accurate, but Eibach said that progress toward true equality required whites to focus on where the country ought to be instead of becoming complacent about how far the country had come.
"There is a disconnect between whites and blacks about what it feels like to be a victim of mundane discrimination," Eibach concluded. "There is a tendency to say, 'These mundane things are nothing like the past,' but the lived reality of bearing that weight -- the frustrations and indignities -- that is a major source of the disconnect."
Anyway, that article proves that you guys aren't the only ones who are cluelessly living in a dream world about the whole black-white thing.
(Of course it looks like the volunteers for the study may have been from Ohio.)
If we could wave a magic wand in Ohio and turn all the white people black and then we'd really hear weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth...
Five thousand bucks?
LOL (Sorry that's a good one!)
At some point people have to stop saying, "I was born this way, disadvantaged, boohoo!" and start taking some personal responsibility. Like the Vietnamese fishermen in New Orleans. I'd bet that if you did a survey of those same white people and asked them how much money it would take for them to be born a penniless Vietnamese immigrant, that the dollar figure would be a lot higher than $5,000.
The reason blacks are far more likely to be imprisoned, murdered, etc. is that they have people like Jeremiah Wright, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton telling them that they are owed something by the white man, that its' not their fault, and that they should feel sorry for themselves.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Tell him he is a victim because someone took his fish and that he should be mad as heck about it, and you make him a slave to bitterness.
Again "blaming the victim" feels good because it absolves society as a whole and white people specifically of any responsibility.
Who cares if we cut funding for head start or low income educational programs that help Black people?
Who cares if we spend far more money (starting in elementary school) and provide far more resources toward educating white people than we do black people?
Who cares, right? Because all their problems are Jesse Jackson, Sharpton's and Wright's fault.
Sorry Sir, but that's just a bunch of baloney...
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And you may not have been personally offended by the "typical" remark (relating to Obama's granny) but you sure were quick to offer it as indisputable proof that Obama is a racist who is unfit for the Presidency.
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Both of those lines of thinking are examples of what I refer to as "Intellectual Sloppitude." That's why they don't hold water...
I agree, teach him to fish...
But then give him equal access to the lake and don't throw rocks in the water while he is trying to fish in an attempt to scare the fish away.
If you wanna talk about a double-standards and learning to fish...
Obama does everything right, works hard, graduates from Harvard law school, etc. and then his bid for the Presidency gets shot down by a bunch of White people who are calling him racist with no proof because of something someone else said?
Is that fair?
No, it's not...
Blaming society and white people does nothing to help the victim.
Head Start is a joke and throwing more money at education is not the answer. Public schools in Cleveland spend more than 5 times the amount of money per student than do the private schools. Yet they have a graduation rate of less than 50 percent. LESS THAN 50 PERCENT!!! A few years ago the city passed a voucher program that would give low income families the financial ability to send their children to private schools. But the measure was struck down as unconstitutional by a liberal judge.
Israel, how's your Mother's surgery? Is she doing well?
Thanks for asking...
She had a couple heart valves replaced with artificial components.
The surgery is over, she's resting and everything seems normal at this point.
We will be keeping her in our prayers.
Everything went well with Olga's surgery. Her nurse(Brenda)who was in with her when Zion and I got to see her is very optimistic about the results and said that she's got a very strong heart and Brenda thinks the fact that she's not obese, not diabetic, has a good family and is in love is definitely going to work in her favor. She'll still feel like she was hit by a truck tomorrow, but they said she's doing very well.
I will see you guys Monday hopefully...
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