Tuesday, January 31, 2006
"Gun bill gets shot down by panel"
"Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. 'I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus.'"
Thursday, August 31, 2006
"Unarmed and vulnerable"
"I would also like to point out that when I mentioned to a professor that I would feel safer with my gun, this is what she said to me, 'I would feel safer if you had your gun.'"
Tuesday, September 05, 2006
"Imagine if students were armed"
"The writer would have us believe that a university campus, with tens of thousands of young people, is safer with everyone packing heat. Imagine the continual fear of students in that scenario. We've seen that fear here, and we don't want to see it again."
Kinda eerie reading that now, huh?
84 comments:
Warning!! This following post is off the topic of guns, guns and more guns.
I Believe I have discovered the next stage in the Republican revolution eventually I think this is where we are all going.
If the Bush Administration has proven one thing, it's that if you tell huge lies and you keep telling them with authority, there are more than enough morons out there who will believe you.
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EXHIBIT "A"
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The polarizing pastor of Doral
José Luis De Jesús Miranda -- who teaches that sin and the devil don't exist -- has emerged as an exalted yet divisive figure.
BY ALEXANDRA ALTER AND TERE FIGUERAS NEGRETE
aalter@MiamiHerald.com
Jose Luis De Jesus Miranda, who claims that he is the incarnation of Jesus Christ, addresses the crowd at the Ministerio Internacional Creciendo en Gracia during services.
Pastors usually don't travel in armored vehicles, preach on a stage flanked by undercover guards, and spend $350,000 a year on security.
But José Luis De Jesús Miranda isn't just a pastor: He says he's Jesus Christ incarnate.
A round-faced, affable and youthful-looking 61-year-old from Puerto Rico, De Jesús has emerged as a powerful and deeply polarizing figure in a religious landscape dominated by charismatic televangelists and politically savvy megachurch pastors.
De Jesús is neither of those. He doesn't preach about helping the poor or aligning society with Christian values. Rather, he teaches that sin and the devil don't exist, and that his followers already are spiritually perfect.
'I don't deal with the flesh, I don't deal with `walk this way, dress this way, don't drink, don't smoke,' '' he said in an interview. ``Christianity doesn't prohibit anything.''
His congregants call him Apostle, Daddy, God, the Man Christ Jesus and, most recently, ''Antichrist,'' a title that De Jesús says he adopted to signify that he has replaced Jesus of Nazareth. Opponents call him an opportunist, a charlatan, a false prophet and even ``the beast.''
Despite growing criticism from mainstream churches, De Jesús -- a one-time teenage heroin addict who claims thousands of followers in the United States and Latin America -- hasn't backed down from his quest to form ''God's government on Earth,'' one that would install him as universal head of state. If anything, he has grown more determined.
In recent weeks, De Jesús has been denied entry to several countries, including El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala, where immigration officials cited disruptions and protests by his congregants.
Members of Nicaragua's Catholic and evangelical clergy have called on their government to keep De Jesús out. Former congregants and even his own family members have spoken against his claims to divinity.
De Jesús and his followers see such criticism as fulfillment of a biblical prophecy that the world would reject the second coming of Christ. They've responded with increasingly bellicose rhetoric. For example, De Jesús predicts natural disasters will strike countries that ban him.
And last month, 400 members of his Doral church -- Creciendo en Gracia, which means ''growing in grace'' -- protested at the headquarters of the Archdiocese of Miami.
''We're out here to tell people enough is enough, religion is coming to an end,'' said Juan Saavedra, 44, a mortgage-bank executive and longtime church member.
De Jesús' followers have disrupted Catholic processions on Good Friday, protested outside an evangelical church gathering in Miami's Tropical Park, and destroyed rosaries and statues of the Virgin Mary during a march last summer in Miami.
PEACEFUL PROTESTS
Similar protests in Guatemala, Costa Rica, Ecuador, Argentina and Colombia have been largely peaceful, but occasionally have led to shouting matches or worse. During a Christian Congress meeting at a baseball stadium in Cartagena, Colombia, last year, a shoving match between Creciendo en Gracia protesters and congress participants left several people with minor injuries.
Several thousand of De Jesús's followers from around the world were expected to gather today in Guatemala to mark his birthday at a church seminar, despite the Guatemalan government's announced ban; the country argues De Jesús is a security risk because he provokes conflict with Roman Catholics and evangelicals.
De Jesús had told followers not to change their travel plans. No government could stand in the way of God's will, he said.
But Saturday, he canceled his visit. Instead, he would address the gathering today in a video teleconference, said the church's head pastor in Guatemala, Jorge Batres.
''We're a church respectful of the law, and we will have to wait until the judge gives us an injunction,'' Batres said.
A GLOBAL MOVEMENT
The tension surrounding De Jesús' planned appearance in Guatemala marks the latest in a deluge of controversies surrounding the 21-year-old church.
De Jesús had just a few hundred followers when he launched his church in a Hialeah warehouse. Today, he heads a global movement that boasts 335 education centers in more than 20 countries, 200 pastors, 287 radio programs and a 24-hour Spanish-language satellite TV network that's available to 2 million homes. Only De Jesús and his top bishop, Carlos Cestero, are authorized to preach.
De Jesús, who bases his messages on his interpretation of select biblical verses, preaches that churches have misinterpreted the Gospels for 2,000 years.
He says children in his church are members of a ''super race'' that has never been exposed to other religions. He also preaches that his followers will one day evolve to have immortal, perfect bodies.
His sermons are often laced with invective against the Catholic Church and other religious institutions. During a recent service at his Doral headquarters, De Jesús told worshipers that he had come to put a stop to other religions.
''Up until now, there's been no one to shut their mouths, but we possess the true gospel, and we are going to shut their mouths,'' he said, drawing applause and cheers.
A media storm erupted in February after De Jesús revealed a 666 tattoo on his arm and claimed to be the Antichrist. Following his example, dozens of De Jesús' followers crowded into a South Beach tattoo parlor and branded themselves with 666. Hundreds elsewhere in the United States and Latin America followed suit as church members announced ``national tattoo days.''
Creciendo en Gracia has begun to draw interest among some anti-cult organizations, which are posting information about it on websites.
But Rick Ross, an anti-cult consultant based in New Jersey who has followed the movement, was careful to distinguish De Jesús from dangerous cult leaders like Jim Jones. Jones' Peoples Temple followers obeyed his command to commit mass suicide in 1978 at a jungle camp in Guyana after followers killed a U.S. congressman and others who had gone there to investigate the camp.
''He seems like a businessman, someone who is making an extraordinary amount of money from his followers,'' Ross said. ``He's not carving out a niche in the jungle.''
The Rev. Julio Perez of Nuevo Esperanza, a faith-based community advisory board in Hialeah, said De Jesús' promotion of 666 -- which appears in the Book of Revelation as the mark of the beast that dominates the Earth before Christ's return -- shows how far his teachings have veered from Christian doctrine.
'Jesus said to his disciples, `Beware that someone will come in my name and you will have a fake prophet, a fake Christ,' '' Perez said. ``666, according to the Bible, is the mark of the Antichrist. It's totally insane.''
De Jesús said outsiders misinterpret his message. He said his newest title, ''Antichrist,'' refers not to Satan but to his belief that his message has replaced the teachings of the historical Christ.
When he's not denouncing other religions or railing against detractors, De Jesús has a relaxed, friendly, unguarded air.
During an interview at church headquarters, he wore a pale yellow polo shirt, tinted sunglasses and an $11,000 Rolex watch. He smelled faintly of cigarette smoke and sipped a Cuban coffee. He joked about how congregants compete to lavish him with gifts -- including a $70,000 BMW sedan, a two-story home in a Houston suburb and a $25,000 Pasha watch -- and showed reporters the bar in his office, where he said he often gathers with his inner circle to drink and smoke cigars after services.
De Jesús' annual salary is about $104,000, he said.
He and his followers say there is no reason for religious leaders to live modestly. ''I don't live a double life,'' said De Jesús, who moved to Houston last year and now commutes once a week to lead services at his flagship church on Northwest 25th Street in Doral. ``They think I deserve the best.''
EX-HEROIN ADDICT
Born in Ponce, Puerto Rico, in 1946, De Jesús grew up in a poor neighborhood and became a heroin addict at age 14, he says. After he was jailed for theft, he was sent to a Christian-based U.S. rehab program called Teen Challenge and converted to Christianity.
At age 20, he moved to Lawrence, Mass., where he worked in industrial jobs to support his siblings and worshiped at a conservative evangelical church.
De Jesús says he began to have revelations one night in 1976, when two angels appeared to him, heralded by trumpets. De Jesús says that at that moment, Jesus Christ merged with him. After that, he began to preach his version of the gospel.
In 1986, he says, God told him to move to Florida. De Jesús and his wife and five children rented a one-bedroom apartment in North Miami and he founded his church. More than 500 people attended services at a rented Hialeah warehouse that first Sunday, he says.
Since then, De Jesús has drifted far from the teachings of mainstream Christianity.
In 1988, he announced that he was the Apostle. In 1999, he dubbed himself ''the Other'' -- a spiritual super-being who would pave the way for Christ's second coming. In 2004, he proclaimed himself to be Jesus Christ and the sole interpreter of the gospel.
His claims created rifts in his family and led to some high-profile defections from the movement, including his first wife, Nydia, and a son, José Luis Jr., who has his own church in Puerto Rico.
His brother, an evangelical Christian minister at the Hialeah-based church Palabra de Fe, or Word of Faith, said De Jesús' teachings arose out of narcissism.
''He has no biblical basis for what he does. It's just his personal interpretation,'' said Carlos De Jesús, who says he prays daily for his older brother's soul. ``He doesn't promote justice, a better community, helping anybody. They just promote themselves.''
Such criticism has done little to shake the faith of the thousands drawn to De Jesús' message. He teaches that murder, stealing and adultery aren't sins, just crimes against society with earthly repercussions.
He has had one brush with the law as an adult: a 1997 arrest in Miami-Dade County for driving under the influence and having an open alcoholic beverage in his car. He was found guilty of drunken driving and was ordered to pay $1,495 and undergo counseling.
His followers say De Jesús has brought them happiness and spiritual fulfillment.
Lisbet Garcia, 36, a former Catholic who joined the church when she was 17, said De Jesús freed her from her fear of the devil. She said she never gets sick now and that the church has made her prosper.
$40.000 GIFT
Garcia, who works in the church's finance office, gave $40,000 to the movement after selling her house in Cutler Bay for $290,000 last May. ''We believe totally that the more we give, the more we receive,'' she said.
Members of Creciendo en Gracia are taught to tithe 10 percent of their income, but many give much more. De Jesús' followers include hundreds of business owners who give a cut of their corporate profits to the church.
Alvaro Albarracin, a former Internet CEO who gave millions and holds the church title ''entrepreneur of entrepreneurs,'' said about 450 businesses are linked to the church.
Carlos Gonzalez, 50, who joined Creciendo en Gracia in 1989, said he gives anywhere from 10 percent to 50 percent of the profits from his Hallandale Beach company, Apos Mortgage.
Followers say they give as much as they can out of gratitude. Rebeca Mojica, 18, said she would set aside paychecks and tips while working part-time at Chuck E. Cheese's, and donate what she could to De Jesús. This year, she gave Creciendo en Gracia leftover college scholarship money -- about $350. ''I'm part of the super race,'' she said.
Joann De Jesús, the pastor's daughter and the ministry's accountant, said donations last year topped $2.5 million, while church expenditures amounted to $1.5 million. Most of the difference goes toward expanding De Jesús' satellite TV network and building education centers in Latin America, she said.
Not all of De Jesús' devotees have stayed in the fold.
One of his most vocal detractors is Regina Albarracin, mother of Alvaro Albarracin, the ``entrepreneur of entrepreneurs.''
''He is a fraud,'' Regina Albarracin said of De Jesús. Albarracin and her husband, who live in Pembroke Pines, were among the first members of his congregation. But as his theology strayed, the couple broke away, which ruptured their relationship with their son.
The man who has called himself an angel, the son of God and even the Antichrist, hints at yet another metamorphosis.
For his ''Government of God'' to happen, De Jesús says he will have to evolve into an immortal, incorruptible physical state.
''I think that will have to happen first,'' he said, rubbing his forearms with both hands. ``Maybe in 10, 15 years. I don't know.''
Miami Herald correspondent Sibylla Brodzinsky contributed to this report. Information from The Associated Press was also used.
Back on guns.
My favorite NRA moment.
RE: Assumption guns make us all safer...
Asked why the US wasn't any safer than Japan or other countries with fewer guns, do you know what the President of the NRA (aka Moses, My Hero, Charleton Heston) said the culprit was?
"Race Mixing."
Apparently Commandment Number 11 which Charleton forgot to carry down was:
"Thou shalt be an ignorant racist."
Sure, the next day Charlie claimed he had suddenly contracted Alzheimers (like Alberto Gonzalez and Reagan) but it sure didn't look like it during that inverview.
Yep, folks, I guess mutts like us Mexicans are responsible for all the people who shoot each other to death.
Israel,
You say you aren't anti gun, but I can't quite get what your stance is on this. I mean you are talking alot, but what are you saying?
Do you think there should be gun free zones?
Do you think we can get all the guns away from the criminals in this country?
What is YOUR solution?
Also, Charleton Heston really is old. I know you think I am old, but he is like, really old. Everyone (almost) from his generation are racists or at least were racists. The culture of his time had segregation and lynchings and everything. The culture HAS changed.
Not that this culture is great or anything, it's still horrible in lots of respects, much worse than in the past, but at least everyone can go to the same schools, sit anywhere on the bus or eat at any restaurant.
This is what I think:
We have enough laws, controlling our rights already. We need to be able to carry and keep guns, just like we are now. Obviously we as regular citizens can't take our guns on an airplane or into a courthouse, or to a sporting event and common sense needs to be our guide there.
The idea of a "gun-free zone" or a "drug-free zone" or a "child- molester-free zone" are just fictions designed to make ourselves feel safer.
Unless you have safeguards in place so people can't bring in guns (like in sporting events, or high schools) then they don't mean much one way or the other. I don't think they encourage or discourage crime one way or the other.
The NRA does important work protecting our right to bear arms, however they are a special interest group just like any other and many of their positions are idiotic and too extreme.
The same could be said for organizations like the ACLU too, but the NRA is far more powerful. The NRA is also full of racist, redneck wackjobs and we need to keep an eye on it just like we need to keep on eye on all extremist special interest groups.
No, we can't get the guns away from criminals. And as long as criminals who can't control their guns (like Dick Cheney) are out there, gun control will never work.
What should be done as far as gun control is concerned in the wake of this tragedy?
Not much.
Extreme situations, scenarios and circumstances like what happened at VA Tech always end up making politicians pass bad laws. Knee jerk reactions either way rarely help.
Finally, I believe this is more about "nut control" than gun control. That is where we should be looking if we want to help situations like this from reoccurring.
There were plenty of clues that this guy gave off which indicated that he should have never been allowed access to guns, period.
Oh yeah, and I also belive that what George Bush did was disgusting...
Did I mention that?
See, now that made sense.
Except for the remark about President Bush. As for that, I asked you where I could see what you saw so I could see if it was so offensive. If it truly was, I am sure there are copies of it on tons of liberal websites. I don't know any, so where is it?
I with you on this one Sharla. I did a little Google search myself and couldn't find anything like what Israel keeps describing. I'm sure he has a good source for it. I don't think he would repeat false allegations against someone just out of a blind, raging hatred for that person. That's just not his style.
drip... drip... drip...
Is this it, Israel?
Because if it is, I was watching the press conference where that statement was made and the statement was made by a spokeswoman, not Bush, and in direct response to a direct question by a member of the media.
Here's a transcript of that briefing, from 12:58 p.m. the day of the shooting. It opens with:
"Good afternoon. I have several announcements and then we'll go to questions.
"The President was made aware of the Virginia Tech shootings. He was horrified and his immediate reaction was one of deep concern for the families of the victims, the victims, themselves, the students, the professors and all the people of Virginia who have dealt with this shocking incident. And his thoughts and prayers are with them; we are monitoring the situation. And while state and local authorities are in the lead right now -- I think that will remain the case, but federal assets are available should they be needed, if Virginia were to request them."
Then, farther down, there was this exchange:
Q Dana, going back to Virginia Tech, what more does this White House think needs to be done as it relates to gun issues? The President says current laws need to be strengthened, anything beyond that -- you had a conference on school violence with guns -- what more needs to be done?
MS. PERINO: I would point you back to the fact that President, along with Secretary Spellings, hosted last October -- October 10, 2006 -- a conference on school gun violence after the Amish school shooting and the other shootings that had happened, because the tragedies are the ones that just collectively break America's heart and are ones that we deeply feel, because all of us can imagine what it would be like to have been at your own school, your own college, and to have something happen. And those of us who are parents, or brothers or sisters of people at the schools have to take that into consideration.
As far as policy, the President believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed. And certainly bringing a gun into a school dormitory and shooting -- I don't want to say numbers because I know that they're still trying to figure out many people were wounded and possibly killed, but obviously that would be against the law and something that someone should be held accountable for.
Q Columbine, Amish school shooting, now this, and a whole host of other gun issues brought into schools -- that's not including guns on the streets and in many urban areas and rural areas. Does there need to be some more restrictions? Does there need to be gun control in this country?
MS. PERINO: The President -- as I said, April, if there are changes to the President's policy we will let you know. But we've had a consistent policy of ensuring that the Justice Department is enforcing all of the gun laws that we have on the books and making sure that they're prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
NOPE JOHN THAT IS NOT IT...
Do you think I would confuse a female presidential spokesman for the president?
It was the president speaking and not in response to any question.
You also notice that the Spokeswoman wasn't stupid enough to make the same mistake Bush did.
"his immediate reaction was one of deep concern for the families of the victims, the victims"
Sounds a lot better than:
He strongly believes in the right to bear arms, but he is sorry all those people got killed.
See the difference?
I haven't heard a peep out of any media outlets about Bush's statement...
John.
Study.
Or:
"his immediate reaction was one of deep concern for the NRA who has been kind enough to donate countless millions to Republican candidates."
Still waiting for a link and/or source for the comments...
Back to studying...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td93ErXzKkU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNAE6CUPXmg&mode=related&search=
These are the only 2 speeches I can find from Bush about the VA Tech shootings. I don't hear what you are talking about, Is... can you please sight your source?
Neither one of those speeches are the one I saw...
I saw it on television (so that's my source) sorry that I didn't think to go back and record it and put it on you tube for you. My only reaction was that I wanted to vomit.
BTW, just because you can't find it on youtube doesn't mean it didn't happen.
What channel? what day?
IF it happened..uhh, I think you could find it. < raising eyebrows >
I am sure you THINK you heard that.
When one is filled with much hate and loathing, one often hears what one expects to hear. :)
An Open letter to Gomerite the Elder and Gomerite the Lesser.
------
Jeshanah,
Are you calling me a liar?
Because if you are, just come out and say it.
------
Sharla,
Are you claiming that I am some sort of delusional psychotic?
If you are, go ahead and say it...
I mean it, don't insinuate it, say it!
Have I ever said or done anything that would lead either of you to believe that I am a pathological liar or that I suffer from some sort of mental illness?
And your evidence of this is what, that you can't find something on you tube?
Real definitive...
I was not calling you a liar, I was trying to find what you are talking about to prove to everyone that you are not a liar! Believe it or not, I don't want people to think you are a liar. I don't want people to think you are a creep, either. (My family has been saying for years how much like you Zion is... and I don't want people to think ill of you, or him by association.)
I'm pretty sure that I have made it clear that I have no problem telling you what I think about you. (My mom has called to defend you numerous times and told me to be nicer...) If I thought you were a liar, I would tell you. I don't. I do however, think that you are an extremely confused individual (hints: all the times I've called you a sad strange little man) and you still have my pity.
Mom might not think that you are "some sort of delusional psychotic".... but I do. =P
You've done alot of things to convince me your nuts, but that is sorta evading the point, isn't it? WHERE IS THE OFFENSIIVE SPEECH???? IF it WAS offensive, you can't be the only left winger who found it so, so WHERE IS IT???
And I am sure, Dear, you are no crazier than all the other fruits and nuts in CA. Don't let it trouble you. :)
Dealing with these people can be so challenging.
haha i am sorry it has been a while since i have read any blogs but i found it kinda funny that israel said that hillary actually believed in something that doesnt have to do with money does anyone else find that funny
Hillary Schmillary, the only thing Hillary believes in is Hillary.
FYI Gomerites, not everything is on you tube or on the internet for that matter.
There are whole vast media conglomerates that do not allow you tube to broadcast any of their material.
Saying something doesn't exist because you can't find it on you tube is like saying that something isn't true because it isn't in Wikipedia.
Do you guys even understand how you tube and Wikipedia work?
-----
Do you guys know Hillary Clinton personally? Do you know how hard she worked to get health care reform passed? How do you know she doesn't care about anything?
Did Rush Limbaugh tell you that?
Have you read her biography?
I have.
I'm not going to vote for her because I don't think she's qualified and I don't think she'll make a good leader. But it has nothing to do with knowing the woman as intimately as you guys think you do and being absolutely certain she doesn't care about anything except herself.
I am beginning to think that trying to teach Gomerites to be critical, independent thinkers is like trying to teach a room full of monkeys to write like Shakespeare.
I admit that even my vast optimism is starting to wane in that respect.
Do you know George Bush personally? Have you spent time with, him talking to him? I bet not, yet you certainly seem to feel qualified to pass judgement on him. Why then, are we not allowed to say something about Hillary?
Reading someones biagraphy doesn't really make you an expert.
Since you cannot even give me the channel where you saw Bush being so 'disgusting', I am starting to think maybe you made it up... or imagined something to be worse then it was and are now embarrassed because upon re-watching, you realised that you misheard.
I haven't met George Bush personally, but I know people who have known him since he was a kid, and who have spent years covering his administration both in Texas and as President.
I have spoken to these people about what George Bush is like as a person and they confirmed all of my worst beliefs about the guy.
He's a stupid, arrogant jerk...
I wish he wasn't but he is.
I used to be a reporter for the Dallas Morning News and The San Antonio Light, and I know lots of journalist over there.
Even people who speak very highly and are very impressed with George Bush's father, think the son is a complete idiot.
These are people who have spent a lot of time with both of the Georges. They are people who are very respected in the profession and have won awards for their work.
So what are your sources on Hillary again?
George Bush has come to my home town twice and I had the opportunity to get tickets to see him up close and personal both times (free.)
I refused, cuz if I want to see a monkey I'll go to the zoo.
Finger pointing, name calling, sarcasm without wit, and an inability to site sources.
Excellent qualities in a lawyer...
Thank you...
And that is "cite" sources not "site" sources, or "sight" sources (sorry that is getting to be a pet peeve of mine.)
Look, I didn't take note of what channel I was watching at the time and the channels in California are different than the channels in Arizona and Ohio anyway.
Does Tucson have a channel 10? It didn't when I was there. We do have a channel 10 here, but I rarely watch TV and I couldn't tell you what channel is NBC or CBS or whatever to save my life anyway. I also get like 500 plus channels, so at any particular time I can be watching the news from many different markets, not just my local channels, so basically I have no idea, OK? I didn't know it would be on the test.
Any source is going to be ridiculed as part of the "liberal" media anyway and the only sources you'd be likely to accept are Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Hannity and Colmes or any of those hacks on Fox. So stop whining about me not citing my source.
So called "Conservatives" can sure can dish it out, but they can't take it. That's where I come in, I teach you how to take it.
It's called "tough love." I've been smacking John around on the internet for a couple of years now and he's learned to take it, so you will too in time.
And guess what, John's no longer a Republican, so baby steps Gomerites, you'll get it eventually...
Please stop taking credit for me no longer being a Republican. You had absolutely zip zero zilch nada to do with it. Get over yourself.
Yeah...
It was just a happy coincidence that the two smartest people that frequent your blog are no longer Republican. (John and Sharla)
It's O.K. to admit it, I won't tell anyone...
(wink, wink.) ;)
Well let's just say he came to his senses after a couple of years of having to listen to me kick the Republicans in the teeth at least once a week.
'nuff said.
:)
And finally you've caught me in error, perhaps you could build an assault on that one letter typo.
If you were to *cite your source (which from what you've said would contain audio and/or video of President Bush's statement) what would there be to dispute? Liberal or not it would from the horse's mouth.
We're all interested in hearing/watching precisely what it was that hurt your feelings.
So called "Conservatives" can sure can dish it out, but they can't take it. That's where I come in, I teach you how to take it.
And a resounding groan from those who are tired of the liberal bleeding hearts attempting to sound tough.
I am starting to think Glenn Beck is closer to right than most of the other voices I hear, and I am pretty sure he is a sick twisted freak too.
Harold Ford, (is that the right name?) was a guest on Hannity and Colmes tonight and I really appreciated what he said. I've heard him a couple times and have always respected him. I am not a huge fan of Alan Colmes but alot of times I like him about as well as Sean Hannity. Sean acts just as rude and obnoxious as he is always accusing the liberals of acting.
A little of this political stuff can be entertaining, but in the end, it is really not worth fighting about. There is a Voice we should be paying attention to, but it is not on fox news. :)
I will say, since this is all about politics, that because I do respect Israel, I have looked at liberal ideas a little closer, just to see how a sane person could agree with that ideaology in any respect. It has been interesting to try to understand the "other side".
It is true I no longer consider myself a republican but that in no way means I have taken any kind of turn to the left. I have just learned more about politics in general and became less enchanted than ever with BOTH parties. The so called conservatives are not conservative anymore. I still respect my country and the office of the president. I also repect my president because I have not seen anything completely disrespectable from him.
I am trying to see Israel's point of view, but on this particular case, he isn't able to produce it.
I have just learned more about politics in general and became less enchanted than ever with BOTH parties. The so called conservatives are not conservative anymore.
Precisely why I am not affiliated with any party. Their salt has lost its savor.
Unlike many 'conservatives' I'm not against change or progressive thinking. Staying ahead of current trends is how I stay in business thus I am in no way locked in the past.
I do not love or hate President Bush, and probably disagree as much as agree with him on policy, especially immigration.
Speaking of which, here's a good chance for a rant from Israel seeing as he lives in a state that illegal immigration costs $10.5 Billion annually.
You guys still don't understand my political point of view as is evidenced by the fact that you continue to insist that I'm a "left-wing liberal."
In fact, my left-wing liberal friends are just as appalled at many of my political views as you are. I don't have any sort of "cookie-cutter" political philosophy and most people with any degree of political sophistication don't either.
I am really a Libertarian, which is the closest thing out there to a true Goldwater conservative out there right now.
You guys aren't really conservative either, you just think you are. You are Christian Rightists and political neophytes -- not true conservatives.
The Republican party is a cess pool of corruption and that is why I have to vote Democrat. The Republicans are also in charge right now and our idiot-in-chief is flushing the country down the toilet.
That is why I can't just sit around waiting for the Libertarians to become a viable third party, because the Republicans are so disgustingly corrupt that they must be opposed and opposed vocally. I hate having to donate money to try to have them removed from power, but I have to because I actually love my country and they are selling it to the highest bidder.
They have strayed so far from the core values of conservatism that they have made a mockery of the term.
You guys will figure it out sooner or later. Lots of people figured it out in the last election, so maybe it'll take you guys a couple more election cycles to get up to speed.
As for the Razor's misguided attempt at illegal-immigrant bashing, you'll just have to look at my prior posts (John can direct you.)
I've been there done that, and I'm not gonna rehash it just for the edification of Roger Dodger the Johnny-come-lately, anti-immigrant Gomerite.
You call us "Gomerites" I call you a "left wing wacko" You say "Nah" I say Hmm"
What's the difference?
And besides, you ARE a left wing wacko, you just don't know it yet.
Sharla said:
I still respect my country and the office of the president. I also repect my president because I have not seen anything completely disrespectable from him.
OK Sharla since you love youtube so much check this out:
It is a video of George Bush making an obscene gesture at the camera...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0IJkD0znCQ
Is that direspectable enough for you?
By the way, this Bush The Holy Man of God who Claims Jesus Christ is his favorite Historical figure also curses like a drunken sailor on the way to prayer breakfasts, but I won't make you watch video of that.
OK Sharla since you love youtube so much check this out:
It is a video of George Bush making an obscene gesture at the camera...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0IJkD0znCQ
Is that disrespectable enough for you?
Ok, that smile didn't go with Israel's last comment, I was trying to tack it onto mine. He was too fast.
That is just what you see when the camera is on. This guy is even more of an idiot when it is off, believe me.
As for the Razor's misguided attempt at illegal-immigrant bashing, you'll just have to look at my prior posts (John can direct you.)
I've been there done that, and I'm not gonna rehash it just for the edification of Roger Dodger the Johnny-come-lately, anti-immigrant Gomerite.
Because apparently all your ideas are written on tablets of stone? I was simply trying to throw you a bone.
I thought that since you're a Latino lawyer in California I would finally give you a subject which would allow you to debate using facts and statistics.
I suppose now we can go back to conjecture and idealistic drivel.
Okay, so he is corrupt. Who here didn't already know that... ? They are ALL corrupt, Israel.
No one on this board thinks that President Bush is that great. None of us worships at his feet. We do however respect his office, just as we respected the office of the man who was previously president. (He was a lying, cheating, dog of a man,but we respected his office, even if we couldn't respect the man.)
That was really stupid of him but not exactly shocking. Even to me.
I didn't raise him.
I don't know why you think I am such a fan of you tube, that was probably the thid time I've been there. The worst thing I've seen there was earlier today I was looking for that infamous speech you've been so upset by, and I saw HORRIBLE videos of libs trying to make President Bush look bad. i had to turn them off as soon I could see what it was and keep looking.
When I didn't know about Occam's razor, I just typed it into the "Need2Find" bar at the top of my screen. I've never been to Wickopedia.
ussing's no stranger to the Bush White House
Paul Bedard
From US News and world report
Vice President Dick Cheney doesn't own the market on swearwords like the F-bomb he dropped on Vermont Democrat Patrick Leahy. Turns out President Bush has quite the mouth, following in a rich tradition of cussing presidents. "He uses the 'F' word as an adjective, a verb, and a noun," says one adviser. Ditto for the "S" word.
---------
Is that disrespectable enough for you Sharla?
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The cursing doesn't bother me so much as the fact that he is such a hypocrite who claims to be a godly man, and that so many Christians are fooled by his charade.
That's not Israel's style, Roger. He doesn't use facts and proven statistics, he prefers name-calling and evasive 'jokes'.
"He was a lying, cheating, dog of a man,but we respected his office, even if we couldn't respect the man."
THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT CLINTON IS NOT AN IDIOT and Bush is.
Bush is probably the worst President in the history of the counrty.
BTW I went to your church and heard Gomerites stumping for Bush right and left.
Thank you for not sharing the video of him cussing, I wouldn't bother anyway.
Why do you think we think he is great? We NEVER say that. I kinda think we should treat EVEYRONE with some respect, but I guess you haven't picked up on that yet.
People who act respectably will automatically get a little more of my respect, it is as simple as that.
I don't think anyone from our church lived on Gomer Rd. when you were there NEARLY SEVEN YEARS AGO!!!! =P
Mom, why aren't you in bed???
What is shocking is that fact that our President is that stupid, that is what is shocking.
The whole world knows it so it's time you guys knew it too.
I think it's funny that the "Gomerite" tag gets to Shan so much.
That's why I gotta keep using it.
Over and Over and Over...
A little respect for the "people" of our church might be nice. :) If you choose to lump us by that category.
Are you seriously trying to tell me that cheating with an intern when you are the President of the United States was not idiotic?
good point Shanny
The cursing doesn't bother me so much as the fact that he is such a hypocrite who claims to be a godly man, and that so many Christians are fooled by his charade.
A hypocritical politician? Doh! When did they start letting those into office?
"He uses the 'F' word as an adjective, a verb, and a noun," says one adviser. Ditto for the "S" word.
With advisers like that it's no wonder our country is in a state of ruin. What a tattletale!
THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT CLINTON IS NOT AN IDIOT and Bush is
This is one instance where I will revert to the Israel style of debate by saying...
BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
you are so annoying....
that last comment was for Is... btw
Cheating with an intern was a private indiscretion until the Republicans dug it up as part of a frivolous lawsuit.
By the way George Bush Senior had a full time mistress and Nancy Reagan helped run the country with the assistence of an astrologer.
LBJ, JFK, most president had sexual indiscretions, nobody impeached them for it though.
By the way I love the people in your church. They're great! They have no clue when it comes to politics, but I still love them anyway!
Shan
You are right. Enough fun for one night. Good night and may God bless ALL of you. :)
night, Mom.
Way past your bedtime Sis Sharla!!
sleep tight!
I think it's interesting that you say no one in the church has a clue when it comes to politics. That seems like a pretty broad generalization considering there are around 500 people who go to that church....
LBJ, JFK, most president had sexual indiscretions, nobody impeached them for it though.
While that is correct, most of them didn't waste their time trying to figure out a way to say 'sexual intercourse' that doesn't actually mean 'sexual intercourse'. If that's not a moron, what is?
Please get over Clinton, he's a lost cause not worth defending.
I think it's interesting that you say no one in the church has a clue when it comes to politics. That seems like a pretty broad generalization considering there are around 500 people who go to that church....
I believe the correct response to that, as prescribed by a friend who knows, is "broad generalization/assumption. Not worth addressing".
yeah, that was my bad for bringing him up... haha
Sharla, if you have a Need2Find toolbar on your browser,that tells me you haven't been using Firefox. Need2Find is a nasty spyware program. If you were using Firefox, that program would never have been installed on your computer. Also, if you had been using Firefox, you would find a built-in search bar that would allow you to select from a number of search engines (Google, Yahoo, Ask, etc.) without installing any spyware on your computer. Firefox is your friend.
As for the Razor's misguided attempt at illegal-immigrant bashing, you'll just have to look at my prior posts (John can direct you.)
Direct him yourself. I have finals to study for...
By the way Roger, according to the very specific definition of "sex" used during the deposition you are talking about, only sexual touching with the intent to gratify someone else was considered "sex."
According to that definition, the only person who can say if he had the intent to gratify Monica was Clinton. If he did what he did only with the intent to gratify himself, he was telling the 100 percent truth.
That is why he could not be prosecuted for perjury. Because the Republican lawyers came up with that very narrow definition of "sex."
Bet you didn't know that!
Not that it was any of their business anyway. How many millions did Ken Starr spend on that perverted (and utterly fruitless) witch hunt?
Look it up...
Clinton: I did not...
If there's something there worth defending I am definitely missing it.
Whoa, it's been a loooonnngg time since I've seen that.
Brings back some memories, huh?
Look, it's his own bee's wax.
It depends on what your definition of "sexual relations" is. And by the way , a vast majority of college students polled did not believe what Clinton did constituted "sexual relations."
I'm just saying...
G'Nite Gomerites!!
Yeah, takes me back to the good old days when I didn't care at all what was going on in politics!!! lol I kind of knew that what was happening was big, but it didn't really bother me cause I was too young to have a say anyway. Those were the days! =)
Since this has deteriorated from a constructive discussion of the failed anti-gun policies of Va. Tech and other self-defense-free zones, and into a swearing Bush vs. lying/cheating Clinton debate, I'm going to shut it down. Nothing is being accomplished.
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